4

I am new to Portugese, but have experience in learning foreign languages. I am looking at this dialogue (from Assimil):

  • Desculpe, que número tem o seu lugar?
  • O meu lugar é o número treze.

What pussles me is the use of verb tener/tem (=to have) in the first phrase. It seems to me that this phrase would be totally illegal in English or French, since the subject (o seu lugar, the possessor) and the object (número, the possessed) are swapped. (Such swap is permissible in German, provided that the relevant case endings appear.) On the other hand, swapping in the second sentence, using verb ser/é(=to be) would pose no problem in any of the languages mentioned.

Are we dealing here with an idiomatic use, specific to Portuguese? Or perhaps, this is an inversion, enabled by the preceding desculpe? Or is this simply an example of incorrect use, that might appear occasionally in elementary study aids?

Roger V.
  • 341
  • 1
  • 8
  • 2
    Hi Roger, it is very, very difficult to learn a third language through a second one or to explain a third language through a second one that is non-native to the person. This fact got me into big trouble on the French site because no one understood what I was saying about that, except you. Do you remember? :) Now, lugar can mean "seat". What number does your seat have? In Portuguese, that is the verb ter. And to tell you the truth, I have no idea what you mean by the possessor and the possessed. – Lambie Aug 18 '22 at 16:16
  • 2
    What number does your seat (o seu lugar) have? My seat is number six. Desculpe, que número tem o seu lugar? OR Desculpe, o seu lugar tem que número? mean exactly the same thing. I don't get what you mean when you use the verb swap in English. – Lambie Aug 18 '22 at 16:19
  • @Lambie neither French, nor English, nor German are my first language. However I have been using English texts for a long time - because many resources are available in this language. I do use Assimil in French now, but Assimil courses exist also in Englisch and German: "X with ease", "X ohne Mühe" instead of "X sans peine". – Roger V. Aug 18 '22 at 17:14
  • 1
    @Lambie closer to the OP: the difference is between "the seat has a number" and "a number has the seat". Switching the subject and direct object makes the phrase meaningless... but perhaps not in Portuguese? – Roger V. Aug 18 '22 at 17:17
  • I know, Russian is your first language. Can we please concentrate on just two at a time? "What number does your seat have"? And "Your seat has what number"? work in English too. Just like Portuguese. But as you can see in English, one needs the auxiliary verb: does. – Lambie Aug 18 '22 at 17:58
  • @Lambie do you mean that this is a question with inversion, like in French: "La siège a numéro treize." - ""Quel numéro a la siège ?" Indeed, it shows how imperfect is my intuition for French, I now see what you meant in your first comment. Thanks! You may want to write it up as an answer – Roger V. Aug 18 '22 at 19:32

1 Answers1

2

No, there's nothing wrong or really strange with it.

The word "que" ("that", "which", etc.) makes the question clear to a native:

que número tem o seu lugar?

does not mean "the number has your seat", but (as Lambie pointed out in the comments)

which number does your seat have?

stafusa
  • 12,114
  • 2
  • 18
  • 53